Comments on: Newt’s new windmill: a moon base by 2020 https://the-orbit.net/lousycanuck/2012/01/28/newts-new-windmill-a-moon-base-by-2020/ ... Because I don't watch enough hockey, drink enough beer, or eat enough bacon. Sun, 29 Jan 2012 15:39:41 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.1.6 By: Trebuchet https://the-orbit.net/lousycanuck/2012/01/28/newts-new-windmill-a-moon-base-by-2020/comment-page-1/#comment-10938 Sun, 29 Jan 2012 15:39:41 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/?p=8991#comment-10938 It’s a no-lose for Gingrich, actually. In the unlikely event that he’s elected AND a moon base magically appears by 2020, he claims all the credit without having contributed in the least. Otherwise he simply blames the failure on liberals.

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By: Robert B. https://the-orbit.net/lousycanuck/2012/01/28/newts-new-windmill-a-moon-base-by-2020/comment-page-1/#comment-10937 Sun, 29 Jan 2012 05:53:53 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/?p=8991#comment-10937 It’s funny that what Gingrich misunderstood was not the science or engineering aspects of his idea, but the history and politics – which are exactly what he claims are his specialties.

The treaties on space neutrality are wind up being, I’m fairly sure, a temporary part of international law. The thing is, the things we can currently do in space are exploration, communication, observation, and science – all things that lend themselves very well to being shared. But someday, people are going to be living in space, we’re going to have industry there. What would it mean to live – or better yet, to be born – in an “international” colony? What laws would you follow? What rights would you have? What elections would you vote in? And it’s possible to imagine an “international” mining company or manufacturing plant… but who gets to keep the money? When space becomes a place for residence and industry, in addition to the things done there now, either the treaties on space neutrality will have to be changed, or countries will need to develop radical new ways to collaborate and share control. The latter wouldn’t necessarily be bad… but the former is much more likely.

As for the “continuous propulsion system,” that’s actually a real thing – it’s not like Newt was proposing the warp drive. It just means a reaction drive that, unlike a chemical rocket, is “cheap” enough in terms of mass of fuel that it can be left on for a long time. Since we’re talking about space, this constant acceleration just keeps adding up, so a continuous propulsion system can be very useful on a long trip – a Japanese vehicle, the Hayabusa, has already been past Mars’ orbit and back on a continuous propulsion system (specifically an ion drive), to bring back samples from an asteroid.

But while an ion drive or other CPS can stay on for a long time, the actual thrust, the force of the propulsion, is relatively weak. This is acceptable for small unmanned vehicles, which don’t need as much force to get going, but manned vehicles are much more massive, and a CPS would have a very hard time imparting useful accelerations. In other words, while a CPS actually might be faster for sending a probe to Mars, if we want to send people, it would probably be slower than a rocket. (Barring big tech advances, of course, which, as you rightly point out, Gingrich has no reason to assume.)

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By: Aliasalpha https://the-orbit.net/lousycanuck/2012/01/28/newts-new-windmill-a-moon-base-by-2020/comment-page-1/#comment-10936 Sun, 29 Jan 2012 03:25:12 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/?p=8991#comment-10936 Oh someone just send him some DVDs of Space 1999 and tell him the moonbase is real, he’ll probably believe it. That or start plotting another affair, this time with catherine schell

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By: LaPlace https://the-orbit.net/lousycanuck/2012/01/28/newts-new-windmill-a-moon-base-by-2020/comment-page-1/#comment-10935 Sun, 29 Jan 2012 03:10:45 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/?p=8991#comment-10935 An interesting bit of trivia.
America spent FOUR times the entire cost to the Apollo program on the Iraq war.

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By: Zinc Avenger https://the-orbit.net/lousycanuck/2012/01/28/newts-new-windmill-a-moon-base-by-2020/comment-page-1/#comment-10934 Sun, 29 Jan 2012 00:09:16 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/?p=8991#comment-10934 Not to worry! International treaties are with foreign people, who don’t vote in elections, and so their opinions can be safely discarded.

Foreigners exist to hate, exploit, or fear – or preferably all three at once. The very idea that a President of the United States should have to even have to know about an international treaty is some kinda commie socialist thinking.

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By: Alecthar https://the-orbit.net/lousycanuck/2012/01/28/newts-new-windmill-a-moon-base-by-2020/comment-page-1/#comment-10933 Sat, 28 Jan 2012 20:34:43 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/?p=8991#comment-10933 I think the real issue with this is that, if American enterprise is involved, our moonbase will probably be an overhyped, style-over-substance moonbase that doesn’t match up to those made by Europeans or the Japanese, all put together by a bunch of underage Thai people working for little to no money.

And while I’ve no real objection to having my sneakers or personal electronics fail randomly due to the above policies, it seems like there would be safety issues involved when you get into lunar flight and residence.

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By: feralboy12 https://the-orbit.net/lousycanuck/2012/01/28/newts-new-windmill-a-moon-base-by-2020/comment-page-1/#comment-10932 Sat, 28 Jan 2012 20:31:13 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/?p=8991#comment-10932 Newt is obviously going for a JFK moment here; what he doesn’t seem to understand is that JFK made his push on the heels of a successful flight by Alan Shepard, with knowledge of the Soviet’s success with Yuri Gagarin, and during a time when the competition with the USSR was providing motivation to advance space science (Sputnik moment, anyone?).
And now here we are with the Shuttle retired, no one has left Earth orbit for nearly 40 years, we don’t even have a freaking space capsule, and Newt thinks we’re going to put up permanent moon bases in less time than it took to land two people there for a few hours.
All due to the magic of the private sector, which will invest the necessary money with no idea how to make any of it back. Oh wait–we’re going to offer wonderful prizes.
I suspect Newt’s pipe dream would likely run afoul of the paraphernalia laws in a few states.

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By: Lycanthrope https://the-orbit.net/lousycanuck/2012/01/28/newts-new-windmill-a-moon-base-by-2020/comment-page-1/#comment-10931 Sat, 28 Jan 2012 19:01:05 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/?p=8991#comment-10931 I was going to ask, “Isn’t that wildly illegal?”, but you covered that base.

Isn’t there some guy out there claiming total ownership of the Moon, selling small plots of lunar territory to paying customers? Claiming he can do this because of a loophole where no nation is allowed to control the Moon, but private citizens have no such restriction? Am I making this up, or is this real? If there is such a guy, obviously very few take him seriously, but is that claim technically true, or (as I suspect) is it a straight-out lie to fuel the scam?

adding that the current state of the space program was a “tragedy.”

You mean, because of lack of government funding?

Also, even if private ventures could and did establish a moon base in the next eight years, wouldn’t it remain a private holding? Yes, the company or companies that funded it would be American ones, but it wouldn’t have any ties to the American government without some type of prior agreement… I just don’t understand what Gingrich thinks the situation should be.

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