Comments on: What Does it Mean to Believe in Something? https://the-orbit.net/greta/2009/05/14/what-does-it-mean-to-believe-in-something/ Atheism, sex, politics, dreams, and whatever. Fri, 22 May 2009 14:11:49 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.1.6 By: Joreth https://the-orbit.net/greta/2009/05/14/what-does-it-mean-to-believe-in-something/#comment-30593 Fri, 22 May 2009 14:11:49 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2009/05/14/what-does-it-mean-to-believe-in-something/#comment-30593 I had a similar argument on the definition of “truth”, where the person I was arguing with was unable to distinguish between “truth: fact, evidence, real” and “truth: personal truth, personal experience, personal observation”. Where I was arguing about empirical truth, saying that the “truth” does not require anyone to believe in it to be true, it just is whether we like it or know about it or not, she kept insisting that there are different “truths”, such as her feelings and her perceptions of things.
Which concepts that we like to wrap up together under a single word in the English language baffle me sometimes.

]]> By: Eclectic https://the-orbit.net/greta/2009/05/14/what-does-it-mean-to-believe-in-something/#comment-30592 Mon, 18 May 2009 01:08:49 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2009/05/14/what-does-it-mean-to-believe-in-something/#comment-30592 I just found a name for this dichotomy: the Is-ought problem, articulated by David Hume.
From A Treatise on Human Nature book III (1740):

In every system of morality, which I have hitherto met with, I have always remark’d, that the author proceeds for some time in the ordinary ways of reasoning, and establishes the being of a God, or makes observations concerning human affairs; when all of a sudden I am surpriz’d to find, that instead of the usual copulations of propositions, is, and is not, I meet with no proposition that is not connected with an ought, or an ought not. This change is imperceptible; but is however, of the last consequence. For as this ought, or ought not, expresses some new relation or affirmation, ’tis necessary that it shou’d be observ’d and explain’d; and at the same time that a reason should be given; for what seems altogether inconceivable, how this new relation can be a deduction from others, which are entirely different from it.

]]> By: Pierce R. Butler https://the-orbit.net/greta/2009/05/14/what-does-it-mean-to-believe-in-something/#comment-30591 Sun, 17 May 2009 23:28:32 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2009/05/14/what-does-it-mean-to-believe-in-something/#comment-30591 You missed at least some definitions of “believing” – as illustrated by the top graphic in the post immediately following this one on the flip side.
[ftr: that’s a photo of candidate Barack H. Obama amidst a puddle of “CHANGE we can believe in” signs.]
Believing is also a) a vehicle for abstract-unto-meaninglessness slogans; b) a vehicle for social exploitation; c) a vehicle for social-group bonding & identity.
[ftr 2: please read above as an expression of Obamambiguity, not as a threadjacking slur on the regime nouveau.]
[ftr 3: fine post!]

]]> By: The Ridger https://the-orbit.net/greta/2009/05/14/what-does-it-mean-to-believe-in-something/#comment-30590 Sun, 17 May 2009 21:27:12 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2009/05/14/what-does-it-mean-to-believe-in-something/#comment-30590 Back when that guy shot up the Amish school, several reporters said some variant of “The Amish don’t believe in cell phones or helicopters, and now they’re depending on them.”
This neatly illustrates the problem of the word. Of COURSE the Amish “believe in” cell phones and helicopters: they see them pretty much every day. But there is certainly a sense in which they don’t “believe in” them: they reject their morality, or usefulness, or something (I’m not entirely clear on their problems with using technology).
To a theist, “I don’t believe in God” parses the way “the Amish don’t believe in helicopters” does. Of course the atheists know God exists; we simply reject him.

]]> By: Eclectic https://the-orbit.net/greta/2009/05/14/what-does-it-mean-to-believe-in-something/#comment-30589 Sat, 16 May 2009 18:16:36 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2009/05/14/what-does-it-mean-to-believe-in-something/#comment-30589 “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.”
Philip K. Dick (Paris TV interview, 1972)

]]> By: Donna Gore https://the-orbit.net/greta/2009/05/14/what-does-it-mean-to-believe-in-something/#comment-30588 Sat, 16 May 2009 11:37:45 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2009/05/14/what-does-it-mean-to-believe-in-something/#comment-30588 I always ask them to EXPLAIN the question. Usually what it boils down to is, “Don’t you believe in anything SUPERNATURAL?” When they say “something greater than yourself” – well sure, there are plenty of things greater than myself. The universe, this planet, the human race. I don’t have to “believe in” them, any more than I have to “believe” in gravity. They ARE. I always say that the natural world is enough for me. It is full of wonder and mystery.

]]> By: Eclectic https://the-orbit.net/greta/2009/05/14/what-does-it-mean-to-believe-in-something/#comment-30587 Sat, 16 May 2009 00:22:34 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2009/05/14/what-does-it-mean-to-believe-in-something/#comment-30587 chaplain, I’d like to disagree. There are facts in dispute that one may or may not believe. Do you believe Goldbach’s conjecture? is true? Or that there exists a smooth solution to the Navier-Stokes euqations? Or that superstrings exist? How about the Higgs boson? Those aren’t ambiguous statements; they’re either true or false. But nobody knows for sure which, and can legitimately have different opinions.
Do you believe that Colonel Mustard did it with the lead pipe in the conservatory? Who do you believe was the father of Louis XIV? (Louis XIII, being gay and living apart from his wife, is far from the only candidate.)
What word do you propose, other than “believe”, to describe such hypotheses?

]]> By: the chaplain https://the-orbit.net/greta/2009/05/14/what-does-it-mean-to-believe-in-something/#comment-30586 Fri, 15 May 2009 19:31:07 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2009/05/14/what-does-it-mean-to-believe-in-something/#comment-30586 I like the post, but I agree with hoverFrog that one doesn’t “believe” facts, one simply accepts them. Aside from that quibble, I like your distinction between the real and the good. It seems elementary, from one perspective, but sometimes we lose sight of the simple things.

]]> By: UNRR https://the-orbit.net/greta/2009/05/14/what-does-it-mean-to-believe-in-something/#comment-30585 Fri, 15 May 2009 08:05:06 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2009/05/14/what-does-it-mean-to-believe-in-something/#comment-30585 This post has been linked for the HOT5 Daily 5/15/2009, at The Unreligious Right

]]> By: Eclectic https://the-orbit.net/greta/2009/05/14/what-does-it-mean-to-believe-in-something/#comment-30584 Fri, 15 May 2009 05:11:20 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2009/05/14/what-does-it-mean-to-believe-in-something/#comment-30584 Well said! I always knew this, and have even attempted to express it, but you put it clearly.
In particular, it’s worth pointing out the ambiguity of the expression and the risk when using it of conflating two very different concepts.
I believe (sense 1) in the existence of secret CIA prisons. I also believe they’re every bit as evil as the Lubiyanka, Hoa Lo, and Tuol Sleng prisons, and are a affront to the honor of the United States and the constitution that Obama swore (twice!) to defend.
I believe in (sense 2) treating all people as if created equal, even though I know damn well it’s not true. Some people are born with a silver spoon in their mouths, and others with a crack pipe. But I take a lesson from _Gattaca_ and think that everyone should have equivalent opportunity.

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