My Predictable MO (Updated)

Nothing quite like noticing an interesting conversation in your Twitter feed and discovering that it is, in part, about you.

Screen capture of tweets. Text included in the post.

@GretchenKoch: I see. Rape culture doesn’t exist, but “outrage culture” does. Seriously, @DJGrothe? That makes my brain hurt.

@DJGrothe: @GretchenKoch “Outrage culture” isn’t exactly a sweeping and systematic critique of society. But I’m glad you got the rhetorical point.

‏@GretchenKoch: .@DJGrothe I wish I didn’t. I’m tired of crap like that. And this:

I’m no longer interested in what you have to say.

‏@DJGrothe: @GretchenKoch Well, that Zvan piece is typical rubbish, impressive falsehoods. Her predictable MO. #outrageculture

Naturally, having made that post true to the best of my ability and knowledge, I asked.

Screen capture of tweets. Text included in the post.

@szvan: .@DJGrothe What falsehoods would those be, D. J.? Be specific. @GretchenKoch

‏@DJGrothe: @szvan I’ve communicated with you zero times in years. Not about to start now. Obsess over someone else. @GretchenKoch

‏@szvan: .@DJGrothe You’ll claim I’m lying but you won’t back it up. Of course. @GretchenKoch

I guess I should be happy he didn’t tell me he was going to forward me the email that contained all the proof. That’s his MO when asked to back up his side of a tale, the promised email that never arrives.

He is right, to the extent that I do have an MO. That MO just happens to be that I don’t let damaging lies like Grothe’s stand when I have the power and the information to knock them down.

That’s what I did in the post he objected to here. That’s what I did in the post reacting to his threats against Pamela Gay. That’s what I did in some of the posts I linked to in order to demonstrate his pattern of lying.

Grothe’s MO is to lie to improve his own situation, then refuse to back up his claims. Mine is to dismantle his lies. I like my MO better.

Update: As Tom notes in the comments, someone is trying to make the laughable argument that Grothe wasn’t talking about Amy in his tweet. Not only does that make no sense in the context of his tweet, but as someone pointed out to me, this isn’t even the first time he’s used the accusation of personality disorders and alcoholism.


@DJGrothe: @gthnk There are a lot of mean girls in atheism etc. But go easy on them: don’t discount the role of alcoholism and personality disorders.

For anyone who might be unaware, “mean girls” is Sara Mayhew’s preferred term for women who don’t want to hang out with her after she’s put so much work into harassing them and their friends. Grothe has been openly sympathetic to her complaints.

So if you’d like to claim Grothe meant someone else, you’re going to need to come up with a better explanation.

My Predictable MO (Updated)

11 thoughts on “My Predictable MO (Updated)

  1. 1

    A commendable MO.

    Has anyone else noticed that an outrage culture is a reasonable reaction to rape culture? It’s a rare moment when I’m willing to embrace their terms.

  2. 2

    I’m available if anyone would like to fact check anything that happened in regards to LAWAAG or the people attempting to get in the way of, or stop the group from peaceably assembling during it’s planning meetings. But hey, I’m sure D.J wasn’t talking about my group when he made those accusations though. How could he? He has absolutely nothing what-so-ever to do with the group and does not work for CFI or for me. Anything he would hear would have to be second-hand or as is so often his case, completely made-up to encourage hatred of the people he has decided not to like.

  3. 4

    Yes, of course, when people are talking about me and tweeting at me and having a conversation about me on twitter, they are really not talking about me. Got it, they accidentally typed my username.

    Is the internet really that confusing to some people, so that they fall for this excuse making and these types of post hoc rationalizations? Pro tip: Conversations are threaded in twitter.

  4. 6

    Tom Foss:

    Oh, but Amy, haven’t you heard? There’s absolutely no reason to think–nor, in fact, any way to grammatically interpret–DJ’s comments as being about you in that tweet he wrote in response to comments about you! How silly of you to make that totally irrational leap!

    It’s well beyond parody at this point, isn’t it?

    Unfortuntely, it’s good enough for Grothe’s purposes. The sort of people he’s writing for aren’t the sort of people to check sources.

  5. 7

    amyroth @ 4

    Is the internet really that confusing to some people, so that they fall for this excuse making and these types of post hoc rationalizations?

    I’m pretty sure at this point that they’re actively banking on their acolytes not bothering to check. Which is really pretty laughable coming from the Skeptical-er than Thou Brigade.

  6. 8

    I’m pretty sure at this point that they’re actively banking on their acolytes not bothering to check. Which is really pretty laughable coming from the Skeptical-er than Thou Brigade.

    Yup. And that’s a secure investment, when you’re peddling lies and misdirection to Cargo Cult Skeptics.

  7. 9

    As Brian Dunning has aptly proven, skeptics learn a lot about how people are tricked and manipulated. What a lot of movement skeptics fail to remember is that they are people who can be tricked and manipulated. Fallacies exist for a reason, and it’s not entirely due to shitty argumentation. It’s because we’re wired to find them convincing.

  8. 10

    As an active participant (Hey! charter member, even) of LAWAAG, I’m constantly disappointed by the ridiculous brouhaha going on outside and around the group. However, that has not dampened my appreciation and enthusiasm for the group at all.

    It’s a bit like being in a log cabin during a blizzard. Outside it’s all howling wind but inside it’s cozy and warm. Just the perfect atmosphere for camaraderie. Sure, we might discuss the blizzard at times. It’s right outside and it’s loud. But the group isn’t about that and never was. It’s about being in a room of intelligent and articulate women who share the same interests. There simply aren’t any other groups like that in LA. (or anyplace else that I know of.)

    Co-ed groups are fine for most and I’m happy for those who enjoy them. I didn’t feel comfortable in any of them and the groups I left had no interest in trying to make me feel included. LAWAAG does. I could invite any of my friends who are on the fence without having to rehearse an apology for the inevitable faux-pas. And honestly, the conversations I’ve had there have been far more interesting. A room full of women has a different energy and it’s amazing.

    I know that a few people are enjoying the drama too much to let it go but I really wish they’d just ignore us. I left their groups rather than bog down productive discussions with infighting. They have a place that reflects their values and they can work together to further their goals (many of which I share.) I just want the same thing.

  9. 11

    This is the second time I have seen Grothe use mental illness and alcohol dependency as slurs against those he does
    not agree with. And if I see it again I shall be convinced it is a deliberate use of phrase and not just a mere coincidence
    It is so easy to dismiss opponents by casting aspersions on their ability to function rather than engage through rational
    discourse. Even if those things were true it would still be wrong to use them as casual ad homs. For once you start doing
    that you have lost the argument. And which is somewhat ironic given that they are employed as a means of winning them

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