Comment from Goldstein Squad Member, in the discussion on the post #mencallmethings: “whore”
The picture was not that great, Greta.
Old bags don’t do it for us.
#mencallmethings
A few notes:
1: For people who aren’t familiar with it: The nude photo in question was done for the Nude Photo Revolutionary calendar, created in homage and solidarity with Egyptian atheist, student and blogger Aliaa Magda Elmahdy who posted a nude photo of herself, announcing the post on Twitter under the hashtag, #NudePhotoRevolutionary, as an act of defiance against Islamist theocracy. It was not intended to be erotic. If someone’s sole response to any picture whatsoever of a naked woman, in any context, is to evaluate that woman on the basis of whether or not they would like to fuck her… that’s pretty pathetic. And even if the photo had been intended to be erotic… the question of whether hateful, venomous, woman-hating trolls find me attractive is of exactly zero concern to me. As British Olympic weightlifter Zoe Smith wrote in her excellent, must-read piece, Thanks (but no thanks…):
What makes them think that we even WANT them to find us attractive? If you do, thanks very much, we’re flattered. But if you don’t, why do you really need to voice this opinion in the first place, and what makes you think we actually give a toss that you, personally, do not find us attractive? What do you want us to do? Shall we stop weightlifting, amend our diet in order to completely get rid of our ‘manly’ muscles, and become housewives in the sheer hope that one day you will look more favourably upon us and we might actually have a shot with you?! Cause you are clearly the kindest, most attractive type of man to grace the earth with your presence.
Oh but wait, you aren’t. This may be shocking to you, but we actually would rather be attractive to people who aren’t closed-minded and ignorant. Crazy, eh?!
Which leads me to:
2: I’m going to issue the standard request that I always issue when the #thing that #menhavecalled me is some version of “ugly”: Please, unless you’re a personal friend or someone I’m having sex with, don’t try to make me feel better by saying that I’m not ugly. If I write about fashion or post the hot pic of myself in the Skepticon calendar, you can say nice things about how I look… but please don’t do it here. I’m not calling this out to garner reassurance about my appearance. I’m calling this out to show people the kind of shit women routinely deal with. I have a thick skin, and I don’t get my feelings hurt by sexist jackasses calling me names. That isn’t the point.
The point isn’t that I’m not ugly. The point is that it shouldn’t matter.
3: I’ve noticed that my Nude Photo Revolutionary calendar picture has been coming up a lot in discussions of me among misogynist haters. Some of the comments are along the lines of, “Greta posed nude, and it’s hot and I jacked off to it, but I hold her in contempt because of it.” Others have been more like this one, along the lines of, “That’s disgusting, who would ever find naked pictures of her attractive?” (Both ignoring the issues addressed in #2 above, of course…) So I’m starting to wonder: Is there going to be a schism in the misogynist hater community over whether my #NudePhotoRevolutionary photo was hot or not?
4: The #mencallmethings hashtag does not say #allmencallmethings, or #mostmencallmethings. If you want to learn more about the history of this hashtag and why people started using it, please read But How Do You Know It’s Sexist? The #MenCallMeThings Round-Up and Why Are You In Such A Bad Mood? #MenCallMeThings Responds! on Tiger Beatdown, where the hashtag originated. And please do not start a “but not all men are like that, so the #mencallmethings hashtag is reverse sexism!” argument. That has been addressed, at length, in the comments in the #mencallmethings: “FUCKIN HOE,” “FUCKIN FEMINAZI SLUT” post, as well as elsewhere. Please read Why “Yes, But” Is the Wrong Response to Misogyny if you’re wondering why I will not take kindly that that particular line of conversation.
5: I am getting very tired of people responding to these posts by saying things like, “Don’t give them attention. Don’t feed the trolls.” This has been addressed at length, in the #mencallmethings: “whore” comment thread, and elsewhere. (Here is a very good short video on that subject, summing up why “don’t feed the trolls” is a terrible response to sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, or other group-based hate.) The tl;dr: This is not a few trolls trying to get attention and stir up any kind of response. This is a sustained campaign of misogyny, aimed at driving feminist women out of a community. And ignoring it does not make it go away. Ignoring it gives it tacit consent. The only way to deal with it is to point it out, and shame it, and make it clear that our community does not tolerate it. When you respond to a woman speaking out about misogyny by saying, “Don’t feed the trolls,” you are essentially telling us, “Stay silent about the misogynist shit you have to deal with on a daily basis.”
And in particular, in the context of the discussions about Atheism Plus — the proposed new wave of atheism that focuses on atheism plus social justice — it’s important to make it clear exactly why Atheism Plus is happening. There are far too many people who want to ignore the reality of sexism and misogyny in the atheist community: who want to pretend that it doesn’t exist, or that it’s not really that bad, or that it doesn’t really happen that often. I think it’s important to show people why, exactly, many of us are finding the idea of Atheism Plus so appealing. In fact, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that I’m starting to get more of these kinds of comments in response to my posts about Atheism Plus, and about how atheists who care about social justice are forming a subset of the community in which this sort of hate will not be tolerated.
Which leads me to my final point on this (for now):
6: As I said in the #mencallmethings: “FUCKIN HOE,” “FUCKIN FEMINAZI SLUT” post, and again in the #mencallmethings: “whore” post: If anyone is still wondering why some atheists might want to carve out a subset of atheism that’s specifically focused on social justice issues — such as misogyny, rape culture, and the reality of what life is like for women on the Internet — and that’s specifically focused on making atheism more welcoming to women, people of color, and other marginalized groups — I hope this puts your questions to rest. This is Exhibit A.
Except it’s not Exhibit A. It’s more like Exhibit W. It’s more like Exhibit W (2) f (viii). I get this all the time. I get this so often, I’ve lost track. As has every other woman I know who speaks publicly about feminism.
I think that’s all from me on this for now. Thoughts?
Thank you, Greta, for being a voice for many who don’t have one. You continuing to call out this wrongness is what gives me hope and pride in being an athiest who cares about social justice. Over and over again we see the same responses and unless we all agree that these kinds of things aren’t okay then we’ll never get anywhere.
Everyone should be calling these things what they are: vile and wrong. And again with the constant derailing of the conversations by saying it’s just best to ignore these people. It’s not, it’ll never end if it’s ignored. To ignore it means it’s accepted and I for one will never accept this as okay.
Just when you might think all the rocks had been turned over, another creep comes to light. I do think these posts are important; I just wish you didn’t have to make so many of them.
And I’m utterly baffled that there are people who still don’t see that there is indeed a real problem with misogyny within the larger atheist community– or anywhere a woman dares to talk about feminism. I wish I could believe that all this hate could be considered the death throes of an empty ideology.
You have a tenacity for dealing with this shit that I do not and I commend you for it heartedly. Me, I think I have to be done for the day because my head is starting to hurt, and it’s on much less hostile terms.
*cringes* Whenever I see these #mencallmethings posts, I just cannot believe there are actual men out there who would say things like that. Then I get angry. Then I get sad. Then I get more sad, because you had to highlight an offensive comment someone decided on a very serious and fun to read post, and then highlight an offensive comment of this higlight, then highlight an offensive comment of that higlight.
“If anyone is still wondering why some atheists might want to carve out a subset of atheism thatâs specifically focused on social justice issues (…) This is Exhibit A. Except itâs not Exhibit A. Itâs more like Exhibit W. Itâs more like Exhibit W (2) f (viii).”
This, a hundred times this.
Retweeted by Richard Dawkins: “I’m a woman & an atheist blogger, & never experienced sexist abuse from fellow atheists. Maybe because I don’t assume they’re misogynists?”
So you see, you’re just getting what you deserve.
Tweeted by Richard Dawkins: “If you get hate mail, block it or ridicule it. If it happens to come from an atheist (or a Christian), don’t blame atheists (or Christians)”
If you have the audacity to ask for a culture change toward not accepting misogynistic attacks, you’re more dangerous than the misogynists, because you’re attacking atheists!!!
I just don’t get this. It’s a whole mish-mash of “shut up and take it,” “you deserve it!” and a reflexive defense against any possible criticism. I’ve lost a lot of respect for Dawkins.
Slight side note: I think I’m coming to a conclusion about some of the reactionary opposition to this. It reminds me of some of my conservative white friends who get angry whenever anyone is accused of racism. They don’t think of themselves as racists/sexists. They also like things the way they are (with their privilege intact). Now some people complain that there are sexists/racists out there and that the culture contains embedded racist and sexist tendencies even when people aren’t meaning to perpetuate it. They can only accept 1 of 2 conclusions. 1, the complains are right and by wanting to keep things the way they are that makes them complicit in sexism/racism. 2, your complaints are invalid and you’re either irrational whiners or an aggressive movement to oppress THEM using accusations of sexism/racism to silence them. Isn’t it so much easier to say “you know you’re right, most of us aren’t sexists/racists but there are things that can be done to improve things so that we all feel more valued and welcome.”
Every time I read one of these posts, I’m just baffled that there are people who say things like that. The only people who read anything I write are people who know me, so thankfully, I never have to endure that kind of tripe.
I’m glad you speak out about these things, Greta. We need to know that these things happen so we don’t become complacent. Thank you.
When it comes to assholes like these, it is truly written: By their comments ye shall know them (and not in the biblical sense.)
PZ has proposed a symbol for their subset of atheism: A*
In the case of this particular piece of vileness, it may actually not come from an atheist. The “Goldstein Squad” is, or was, a spectacularly stupid gang of creationists, pretending to themselves that they are courageous opponents of the evolutionist tyranny, and too dim even to realize that Goldstein in 1984, and all his works, were either inventions of the Inner Party, or at any rate very useful to the latter. You’d think the fact that Winston Smith was given his copy of The Book by O’Brien, who later tortures him into abject surrender, might give them a clue. Of course, it’s possible that a similarly stupid misogynist atheist has adopted the label.
Can I suggest… MRA+?
“I’m an angry misogynistic asshole plus I think Greta Christina is hot.”
Online hate in general is a serious problem. My only issue with Atheism+ is that it seems to place a special blame on the atheist community, like we are above having horrible people in our ranks, when we are not, obviously. I support calling the ugliness out, but not the scapegoating.
We can only hope. With any luck, it will be a schism leading to extensive physical conflict, and have extremely high casualties. You know how bloody those religious wars can get.
Cardenie, I’m not sure how you conclude that atheism+ is putting special blame on atheism or doing any scapegoating. We’re not on a (likely impossible and beyond our scope) mission to abolish hate on the internet. We’re just trying to abolish it from our own community. That doesn’t mean we’re attacking or scapegoating the community. It just means we want to make it better. And the splinter group was a necessity because our concerns were being dismissed by too many in the movement at large.
Dear Greta, is it ok if I say that — based purely on your writings such as your “Why are you atheists …?” book, I don’t actually know you — that you are intelligent, thoughtful, humane, insightful and a really good writer?
Oh yes, obviously it’s just another example of how this new A+ thing is dividing atheism with it’s divisive diversity!
When it’s not forcing us all to conform to the grey featureless uniformity of Femi-Stalinism that is…
(I’m not sure which of these two apocalyptic visions I’m supposed to worry about…I’ve been warned about both in equal measure I think.)
jamessweet @ #9: THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! I wasn’t sure I’d be able to laugh about this today. This cracked me right up. Just what I needed.
Maybe they just need to create a “boner approved” stamp for blogs and organizations they like. That will make it easier and reduce the need to yell about it all the time.
Yeah, because “doing it” for pricks like you was obviously the goal here…
@ Ganner #5:
Geez! Doesn’t that douchebag ever run out of feet to put in his mouth?!
[…] all the misogynist comments that have been made regarding feminism and atheism+ are from trolls. As Greta Christina points out I am getting very tired of people responding to these posts by saying things like, âDonât give […]
Attention, misogynist asshats: your poo-flinging will not go unpunished. If you are unable to look at a #mencallmethings thread without contributing to the problem, you will be called out. If you don’t want to be called out, perhaps you could look at websites that don’t cause you to spray your vileness at the comment threads.
Man, is Dawkins trying to make people hate him?! What the hell? Just stop commenting on this shit if you can’t add something valuable to the conversation.*
*FYI – “Just ignore misogyny” isn’t ‘something valuable’ added.
Ace, how about this for a slogan:
“Menz tested, boner-approved!”
American Commercial Reference
Oh, fuckity, fuckity, fuck!
Calling someone a misogynist or a bit misogynistic justifies unlimited amounts of crap flinging? Ahem, I do not think this is rational or inclusive or, y’know, not divisive.
(On a funny note, I wanted to say that if you want to generate controversy, try posing in leather or holding a WalMart bag. That’ll kick the controversy up a notch.)
Posts like this – not just #mencallmethings but the calling out of sexism and generally “feeding the trolls” – are the reason I know there’s a problem. I didn’t know that sexism was even still a big thing. I know a lot of feminism’s success stories, so to speak – the women among my family and friends are all educated, confident, working, healthy, respected and self-respected. From my limited (privileged) perspective, the fight seemed to have been won. Now I know otherwise, because of posts like this that break with custom by making the hatred visible and public. Now I know what I have to stand up against.
#mencallmethings doesn’t feed trolls, it inspires people to be allies.
@Robert B. #23
I’m going to tweet and post a link to your comment on Tumblr. This is an important piece of information that people skeptical of calling out trolls need to be aware of. Thank you for writing that and thank you for being an ally.
Yes. A couple. I hope you don’t mind me saying that you have balls of steel, by the way…I meant it with the greatest possible respect.
Timid Atheist @24:
Sure! I’m glad to help. If you copy-paste what I wrote somewhere else, just attribute it with the same handle I posted it under, “Robert B.”
As for being an ally, well, I try. “Ally” isn’t a merit badge you get for good intentions, or even past accomplishments, that you then get to wave in people’s faces. It’s a description of a person’s behavior. It describes people exactly while and to the extent that they are taking action to help.
Once again I find myself embarrassed by my own gender..
You have a powerful voice and I am glad you are using it as you are. The thing to remember the vile screams of rage that you are experiencing is generated by their fear that their time is nearly over.
There is plenty of men out here who are trying not to be part of the problem and that is due in no small part to people like you.
I like many people here felt a surge of hope at the birth of the A+ movement and I’m sure that as the A+ pushes forward with positive action’s and deeds the A+’ers will get stronger and stronger, and the hater’s voice’s will become weaker and weaker.
Thankyou
Robert B. @26:
Done.
You’re exactly right. That’s what I’ve learned while trying to be an LGBT ally and supporter and eventual, tenative member. Same goes for racism or anything else. Being an ally doesn’t get you cookies. It makes things easier for the people you’re allying with and that’s something everyone should aspire toward.
@25 Gretchen,
I was going to say perhaps you’d want to use a statement that does not have sexist connotations attached. (“balls of steel”)
But…then I read your post, and it seems you may have made this same observation when you say, “I really should use a more appropriate expression.” Agreed. đ
Is it fair to say that I think the pose, the assortment of books, and your quote on the calender is awesome? I like the overall artistic statement of it. Really, the photo itself is irrelevant regarding other things you stand for, and these misogynists are ridiculous.
sambarge:
He didn’t say ignore abuse he said “block it or ridicule it”, ridiculing is not ignoring.
Also, his tweet immediately before that one was a retweet of: “What a spineless fraud that @RichardDawkins is.. Fucking televangelist”. It may have been that tweet (not the one about the woman and atheist blogger) that was uppermost in his mind when he then tweeted: “If you get hate mail, block it or ridicule it. If it happens to come from an atheist (or a Christian), don’t blame atheists (or Christians)”.
A request for the feminists here… Tell me your thoughts on this feminist calling Stephen Hawking a “sexist douchebag”:
http://artmirrorsthespecator.tumblr.com/post/15403367310
She also claims that he’s not a genius… For any feminist here who can take criticism (it seems that most can’t), check out the link and then answer these 3 questions:
1. Do you think Stephen Hawking is a sexist?
2. Do you think Stephen Hawking is a douchebag?
3. Do you think Stephen Hawking is not a genius?
Who’s been lying to you??!?
No, seriously, who told you that, and why would you believe them?
Where has ANYBODY ever claimed that misogyny is out of the ordinary, above average somehow, in the atheist community?
Okay, to be fair, I have seen about 1 blog post from someone whose name I can’t remember speculating that maybe it is a bit above average, but that was only about a month ago, and the speculation was inspired by the intense staying power of the anti-woman hate campaign against Rebecca Watson, Jen McCreight, Surly Amy, Ophelia Benson, Greta Christina, and so on.
I support people checking to make sure the things they disapprove of actually exist in reality!
Oh oolon. And you were seeming so reasonable a couple of days ago.
99% of alleged criticism against feminists is the ranting of wounded male privilege. Supply us with some actual criticism, rather than testerical whining, and we’ll see.
Not necessary, I’m familiar.
I think he said some sexist things. I claim no knowledge about what he thinks and feels about women in his heart of hearts.
I have no idea. Nice people say sexist things sometimes. I’d have to interact with him more, or read more of his non-science related opinions, to make that judgment.
No, he seems like a pretty legit genius.
You, on the other hand… well, you’re genius at unintentional self-parody. So there’s that.
This is an example of:
“Yes, but women call anyone they don’t like sexist and other mean names, so really there should also be a #womencallmethings tag!”
@32: Sexist yes. I wouldn’t call him a douchebag based on that statement alone, and it’s certainly not grounds to compare him unfavorably to Hugh Hefner. Their statements are both vaguely about women, but not on the same issue and not really comparable. It strikes me as abotu as valid as sayign David Duke said he supports equal rights for all and Bill Clinton said Sista Soulja should apologize, therefore Bill Clinton is more racist than David Duke. It’s nonsensical.
oolon @ #32: Why, exactly, should we do that “here”?
I direct your attention to this post: Why âYes, Butâ Is the Wrong Response to Misogyny. In particular, I direct your attention to this example of “Yes, but” derailing:
âYes, but⌠Rebecca Watson or some other feminist said something mean or unfair in another conversation weeks/ months/ years ago. Why arenât we talking about that?â
And I will quote from that piece:
Please don’t do this. If you want to talk about what some other feminist said about Stephen Hawking, that is a reasonable topic of conversation — elsewhere. It is not a reasonable topic of conversation for this thread. It is a derailment. Don’t do it. Thank you.
Okay. I’m convinced. Atheist misogynists exist, some of them know how to use a computer and they can be annoying (or worse) if you read and pay attention to their rantings.
Now what?
To people, like Cardenie, who don’t understand why we need A+:
I’m a refugee from religion. I was raised as an evangelical Christian, by ‘born again’ parents, fans of Billy Graham.
I first experienced bigotry from the church as a 14 year old. I liked alternative music, wore black a lot, and was interested in activism against poverty and world hunger. I dressed smartly for church, was respectful and involved, but was. marked as “weird” and was shunned. It hurt, I was very disillusioned. I gave up on organised religion, and just kept it in my head.
As I got older and realised I liked women, and not men, I started really picking up on the church’s attitude to women and gay people. I’d taken Religious Instruction at GCSE level, and had a brilliant atheist teacher.
I was initially horrified when I found out she didn’t believe! That was at 11. By GCSE time (14-16) I was curious about her attitude. She pointed out a lot of Christian hypocrisy about women, race, sexuality, etc. That had gnawed at me, so by the time I realised I was gay, I was thoroughly pissed off at white, straight, wealthy men telling me what to do, what to believe in.
I finally reached atheism a couple of years ago, via skepticism. But I found the same white, straight, wealthy men in charge. They stuck to religiously-inspired beliefs about male superiority, women as somehow ‘dirty’ and. unworthy of respect. The treatment of LGBT people as damaged, weird, seeking “special treatment”. Casual racism, classism, and denial of privilege, a belief that people are born as they are for some reason.
Hell, there are even sect leaders, set texts, creeds! It’s just religion without god, and “LOL homeopathy!”. It’s scary.
A+ gives us escapees a chance to help dismantle attitudes that were perpetrated by religion, to use our tortured pasts to do something positive.
Ace of Sevens @ #36: Wow… Do you really think Stephen Hawking is a sexist? I think what he said was sexist but I wouldn’t actually call him a sexist.
BTW, I just got sent this picture from someone to illustrate why Atheism Plus “isn’t needed”:
http://coffeelovingskeptic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/279228_2311656951357_1247390027_32771880_7624207_o-1.jpg
Can anyone look at the picture and tell me what they think (especially Greta)? I know I can’t be the only one who thinks it’s ridiculous. Especially because instead of explaining why Atheism Plus isn’t needed, it accomplishes the exact opposite.
One Way Monkey (formerly ‘Nym Too) @ #39: Okay, I’m derailing my own thread here… but I love, love, LOVE the new handle!
Dave F @ #38: To quote Monty Python: A fair question and one that in recent weeks has been much on my mind.
Here’s a good place to start: Atheism+: Itâs time to walk the walk.
I have exactly one thought to express. That is a picture of a naked happy person, and naked happy people are a good thing.
That is all.
(OK, maybe not all. To be clear, exhibitionists who need to be naked in front of people who don’t want to see them naked, are not happy. They are sad people who think forcing other people to see them naked will make them happy. Sad people making other people sad by by forcing them to see naked people is a bad thing. Greta Christina is not forcing anyone to see her naked. I looked at her of my own free will, and as implied above, naked happy people make me happy.)
@42: And when Greta was naked on the Internet, it was inevitable that eventually some dude who didn’t find her attractive would see the picture. Therefore, she’s worse than Sauron. Thank you for making this point.
I second Greta’s derail at #41.
Love it, One Way Monkey!
Greta Christina @ #37:
A “derailment”? No, feminism is a derailment from a much more important topic – atheism. Whining about trolls saying sexist things? Oh, that’s really important. đ
Do you know what you are? You’re a cunt.
That’s right, you’re a CUNT.
Now, don’t pretend that I’m a sexist… I’m not saying all women are cunts. I’m not even saying most women are cunts. But someone who whines about sexist trolls is just that – a whining, annoying, cunt.
Thanks! I couldn’t resist it’s pull any longer. It was either this, or convincing next door’s dogs to form a band with me, using the same name. But they’re Ven fans…
@45: So you come into a thread about a troll campaign about Greta, ask “What about this single questionable post by someone you probably haven’t heard of? Feminists also use name-calling!” And and Greta’s a cunt for saying that’s off-topic for this thread. Is that a correct summary of your position? Greta is perhaps the best on FTB when it comes to letting people who disagree argue their points without drowning the original topic thanks to tight control of thread topics, mostly. If you want a thread where we discuss where feminists are sometimes mean and unreasonable, I suspect everyone would agree there sometimes are, so a separate thread isn’t really necessary here.
@45 No, we won’t call you a sexist because you don’t think all women are cunts. We’ll call you a sexist because you believe that reducing a woman to her genitals as an insult is acceptable behavior. You have shown yourself to believe that women, and treating them like human beings, is of little importance. That makes you a misogynistic asshole.
oolon @ #45: You discredit the proud name of Oolon.
And you’re banned.
[…] Comment from oolon, in the discussion on the post #mencallmethings: âOld bagâ A âderailmentâ? No, feminism is a derailment from a much more important topic â atheism. Whining about trolls saying sexist things? Oh, thatâs really important. […]
Greta, I’m sure he’ll go whine to his MRA buddies about how you censored him. These people… wtf? I mean seriously? WTF?
@Greta #41
Thank you for the link. I’m all for the concept of atheists working for something positive beyond our own greater acceptance (or even just being left alone). I’m just wondering how you mean to exclude the trolls. If you label it “A+”, it will attract atheists of all stripes and demeanor. Tagging it “SAFE” (or anything that suggests godlessness without making that aspect preeminent) will attract people who are primarily interested in social justice. My guess is they will be a-religious for the most part, but it wouldn’t be a terrible thing to have nominally spiritual people working with us for the greater good. In fact it would probably be a great learning experience for them.
Dave F, this should be a good start at culling the trolls:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2012/08/27/atheism-plus-the-site-is-here/
If trolls can’t clog up the main thread, most of them won’t bother moving to the educational area to continue the conversation – but the honest questioners will. That’s the theory at least.
What a sad, small person to insult you in this way – I’m not refering to this persons stature, but I am wondering if trolling like this relates to, um, length and girth, and not quite getting it about why he’s not scoring dates with the type of barenakedwomen he likes to look at.
Personally, I don’t get religeon myself, but I sang with a shit-hot gospel group based out of an Anglican church, and was impressed with the openness and inclusivity of this group of folks. “Non believer? No problem.” In this country (I’m north of you) there really are a lot of folks who view the local church as a social and social justice venue and are actively contributing time and money to literacy programs, food banks, job coaching etc.
and oops: I forgot to compliment you on your great blog. I read you regularly.
[…] Greta has pointed out, when someone calls a woman “ugly”, the proper response is not your […]
[…] say we hate faulty logic, but, by default, we think all and every one of the trolls we get are Atheists – New Atheists, to be […]